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Michigan Set To Become First State To Ban Flavored E-cigarettes (cnet.com) 89
Back to real cigs kids! (Score:5, Interesting)
by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @01:41PM (#59157766)Did you really think you’d be able to escape Big Nicotine?
Nope. Now go down to the shop and hit those genuine cigarettes, so much healthier.
Now go down to the shop and hit those genuine cigarettes, so much healthier.
Well they didn’t announce that they are banning unflavored stuff.
So couldn’t you just fill your mouth with Gummy Bears while you vape unflavored stuff . . . ?
Same effect.
Maybe.
Even better, they should have allowed flavored vapes, but only if they are nicotine free.
Well they didn’t announce that they are banning unflavored stuff.
Just sell unflavored juice along with a bottle of flavoring the customer must add themselves.
At least, until they enact bans/restrictions/licencing on the sale of vanilla, cherry, strawberry, etc etc flavor extracts.
After all, local bakeries are just a gateway to the horrors of flavored vaping, amirite?
How Progressive of them! Gotta save those sweet, sweet State tobacco tax revenues and Big Tobacco settlement payouts! Support your Michigan government, give a kid a pack of Camels today! Just don’t drink the
- Actually, it’s flavored juice with no nicotine, and then small packets that you squeeze into the bigger bottle to get to what strength you want. These are already in stores, works fine. If this does anything, it SHOULD actually decrease the prices, since there theoretically would be one “model” per flavor, instead of multiple strengths. I bought some a few months ago…so the market is already prepared for this.
- I wouldn’t want my kid vaping but there have only been a handful of cases of problems recorded. Even if you only look at adults, the number of people that vape in the US is something like 9 million… I just don’t see it as a big issue. Your kid is many many times more likely to be struck by lighting in their lives (something like 1 in 3000) than to be one of those cases.
I wouldn’t want my kid vaping but there have only been a handful of cases of problems recorded. Even if you only look at adults, the number of people that vape in the US is something like 9 million… I just don’t see it as a big issue. Your kid is many many times more likely to be struck by lighting in their lives (something like 1 in 3000) than to be one of those cases.
I prefer “educating” people about the risks rather than banning a product. Teach them the risks and let them decide. I don’t really endorse vaping, but as long as someone isn’t blowing their cloud around me, I don’t see why people shouldn’t vape their candy-cigs if it is what they want to do based on an informed decision.
I prefer “educating” people about the risks rather than banning a product. Teach them the risks and let them decide.
That is reasonable for adults. But younger teens don’t have the mental maturity to make life altering decisions. The fact that it is dangerous and addictive, and thus using it pisses off the adults they are rebelling against, makes it more attractive.
That is reasonable for adults. But younger teens don’t have the mental maturity to make life altering decisions. The fact that it is dangerous and addictive, and thus using it pisses off the adults they are rebelling against, makes it more attractive.
Is it not already illegal for kids though? Just like with regular cigarettes, punish the adults who sell, or provide, vaping materials to children.
Re:Back to real cigs kids! (Score:5, Insightful)
by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @02:32PM (#59158034)This is an example of intentionally creating crowd panic over a situation that SHOULD lead to people being healthier
The REAL issue is that vaping is undercutting sales of Tobacco, and as a result is threatening to reduce the sin-tax money going to anti-tobacco groups
to protect their income from tobacco products (or include vaping in products they get sin tax money from), these anti-tobacco groups have entered into a propaganda war against vaping and are employing their friends in the media to trumpet every single vaping issue as if it affects the entire field
Currently some cheap-ass vaping products from China are causing health issues
This has happened recently with Milk and Dog Food products from China and the proper response is for import regulators to ensure that safe products are being brought into the country
The anti-vaping response is, of course, to demonize vaping.
If we took the same approach with prior incidents of defective products, then we would have demonized Milk and Dogs instead of poorly manufactured products
I admit that I used vaping to quite a multi-decade tobacco addiction, and as such I see vaping as the clear ‘lesser of two evils’ and about 50 times easier to tape off and quite
I admit that I used vaping to quite a multi-decade tobacco addiction, and as such I see vaping as the clear ‘lesser of two evils’ and about 50 times easier to tape off and quite
That’s fine. Vapes are a perfectly good way to help you quit.
The problem is, flavored vapes are open the reason why kids get hooked on them, and use among teens is rising, such that if you total vaping and smoking, the overall trend is increasing.
If you ask any teen, they hate cigarettes because the smell is awful. The flavored vapes
And this my friends, is what is known as ‘Baseless Pontification’, one of the clearest signs that you are hearing from an astro-turfer
Notice how they rely on NO CITATIONS, or even personal experiences, they just make up some statement from ‘any teen’ and sure enough we are supposed to suspend all of our own experience based beliefs and chuck them in a creek… ‘FOR THE CHILDREN’
go jump in a lake
lol, again with the AC tag when to chicken shit to support your own views
I am a shill for my own best interests.
I smoked for decades and have finally found a way to keep myself from smoking. I will fuck well fight to keep access to that tool and will support the rights of others to safely relieve themselves from tobacco
The fact that tobacco is used as a source for nicotine doesn’t bug me at all since, the same source is used for nicotine gum, which is also used to get people to quit smoking.
You know that th
- Your previous post had no citations either, and tlhIngan has been around longer than you and has a diverse comment history. Why shouldn’t we believe that you’re the astroturfer?
- by Puls4r ( 724907 )Except this is more SuperKendall spam.
Big Nicotine owns some of the big vaping companies. Phillip Morris owns Jule. The problem is twofold: the chemicals you put into the vapes weren’t regulated. The vapes weren’t regulated. So people were getting (and are getting) very sick.
In addition, nicotine in chemicals appears to be just as addictive as nicotine in cigarettes. Go figure.
Essentially the tobacco companies thought they found a whole new way to addict a whole new generation, and some intell
Here is the thing about vaping, I can control the amount of nicotine in the juice, from enough to feel nauseous to ZERO
This allows for effective tapering of nicotine to zero, from which quitting is easier than cold turkey from cigs
And, don’t get started on nicotine gum, the levels available do not support tapering, and the method of delivery is so unlike smoking that it never becomes an adequate replacement
I tried to use gum to quit for about 5 years before switching to vaping, and subsequently quitting ent
Nicotine is addictive. So what? Caffeine is addictive. Oh, you like coffee? Too bad, it’s addictive and must be banned.
See how that works?
They love to act like nicotine is like heroin or oxy. People get “addicted” because of the ritual and because of the social aspect. You take the nicotine out of people’s vape juice without them knowing and many won’t even notice.
It’s weakly addictive at worst, it’s just that it has other reinforcing factors and is legal and easy to get.
About on par with caffeine. Way overblown, people smoke because it’s a ritualistic habit and they associate it with relaxing and taking a break. The small rush fades over time and becomes nearly non-existent after smoking for a while.
I’ve tried it, doesn’t do shit for me. There was a study (easily searchable online) and they found about half of people just don’t get the same reaction to nicotine, I must be in that half.
- by samdu ( 114873 )
No amount of regulation is going to keep people like the ones that got sick recently from doing exactly what they did – get some janky, off-the-street, THC-laden juice made by using solvents to extract the THC, putting it in a vaporizer, and huffing it down. Those incidents weren’t about vaping per se, but about people doing stupid things with shady juice.
- When I was 5 my friend goaded me into trying smoking. We talked about where we could get a cigarette, and I remembered that my parents had gotten a cigar that someone had given them upon the birth of their child (that used to be a tradition). I asked my mom where it was, and she (probably cleverly) told me without asking why. I found it and snuck it out to my friend. He’d gotten matches, and we lit it and took a puff.
The experience was so awful that I’ve never smoked again, and the smell still makes
- Yeah. The thing about cigars is you might make yourself sick on the nicotine and the next day you’ll wake up feeling like you slept in a burning tobacco field but you only need to power through that experience another 3-5 times and it’s smooth sailing after that. Most kids lack the resolve.
Funny, how — after fining tobacco producers billions of dollars (much of which went into the States’ “general funds” rather than being spent on caring for the sick), we’re now allowing — if not encouraging marijuana use.
(My inner Libertarian remains flabbergasted, how people condone government telling them, what they can and cannot do to themselves, and still consider themselves free, but that’s a separate point.)
It’s still smoke you pull into your lungs. At least vaping is mostly water.
If it were 90% water and 10% cyanide it would be “mostly water”, too. The “mostly water” part isn’t the problem. It’s the rest of it.
While I agree, smoking anything is harmful, there is a difference between smoking weed and smoking tobacco or vaping. Unlike tobacco and vaping, smoking weed isn’t usually something people do 10x per day every day.
- by samdu ( 114873 )
Yes… because propylene glycol is so dangerous. Like cyanide dangerous. So dangerous that hospitals vent propylene glycol vapor into the air.
https://www.jpeds.com/article/… [jpeds.com]
It’s still smoke you pull into your lungs. At least vaping is mostly water.
Vaping marijuana is waaay better than smoking it. I wish we had vaporizers in my teenage years.
- Also psychosis in teens susceptible to it (which my nephew was). I don’t get the whole hippie “MJ is a natural, harmless cure-all maaaaan!” bullshit. I agree it should be legal but stop pretending it’s harmless.
Nicotine has NO carcinogens. I don’t know what’s in the shit coming from China but the clean glycol-based juices don’t have any either.
No, but it has alcohol (propylene glycol) and can cause skin and eye irritation (irritation to other soft tissues). I mention this because I am one of those people that are very grateful to amazon for giving me a much better selection of alcohol free deodorant and skin care products that won’t cause me to break out into a rash.
That being said if you are actually heating the vape juice too hot and it does burn then yes there are carcinogens.
Nicotine is a SINGLE molecule. And your right, pure nicotine is not a carcinogen. Just highly addictive and toxic (a single drop of pure nicotine on your skin will kill you).
Its the rest of the stuff mixed with it that is the problem.
The smoke/mist from e-cigs and vaps still contain a witch’s brew of other compounds that most rational people would prefer not to inhale or otherwise be exposed to if given the choice.
- by I4ko ( 695382 )
Demonstrably false. Pure Nicotine and Vitamin B3 are essentially the same. Oxidation (burning) of Nicotine produces B3 (nicotinic Acid). It is the other stuff, specifically the maois and tars in the tobacco that kill you, and in the case of vaping fluid the glycols and other plastics. It can actually be good for you https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p… [nih.gov]. But it is hard to get the pure stuff.
- It (nicotine) is also not highly addictive in any sense beyond being easy to get. You could double-blind put people on doses of nicotine and then withdraw it with few consequences. They act like it’s super addictive because so many people smoke and can’t stop, but smoking addiction is more about habit/ritual/social aspects. It’s about the same as caffeine in terms of physical addiction properties.
- You left out the most dangerous item. People.
And caffeine. It’s much more harmful than vaping.
And caffeine. It’s much more harmful than vaping.
No it isn’t and that is an absurd statement. Caffeine has been used for hundreds of years and doesn’t cause any long term harm when not used excessively. More people use caffeine than vape; but vaping has caused more long term medical problems than caffeine.
Caffeine may be addictive for some people and may cause jitters and sleeplessness, but all of that is 100% reversible by discontinuing.
” Caffeine has been used for hundreds of years and doesn’t cause any long term harm when not used excessively”
Same for nicotine. That was my point.
“vaping has caused more long term medical problems than caffeine.”
Got any sources for long-term sources that show that? Didn’t think so. Vaping is water vapor.
Here, this is 6 months old and still has a long list of articles concerning harmful effects of vaping:
https://www.healthline.com/hea… [healthline.com]Vaping is a lot more than just water vapor or no one would do it. I know no-one who only vapes water with nothing in it… and no-one is banning just water vapor.
That article certainly says “may” and “might” a lot, but no actual convincing evidence. The only study they cite showing any connection to heart disease includes people who also smoked.
Thank you for proving my point about the vaping hysteria.
Even if vaping were just water, your lungs are made to breathe air, not water.
But vaping isn’t just water. It got all sorts of other garbage in it that is definitely unhealthy, including nicotine.
Nicotine is very unhealthy in any quantity.
Re:But not marijuana? (Score:4, Interesting)
by Train0987 ( 1059246 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @02:17PM (#59157938)The real irony is that cigarette taxes fund a huge portion of state’s revenues now. That’s what’s fueling the hysteria about vaping at the state/federal level: they need a reason to tax it. For your own good. Oh, and for the children.
The real irony is that cigarette taxes fund a huge portion of state’s revenues now. That’s what’s fueling the hysteria about vaping at the state/federal level: they need a reason to tax it. For your own good. Oh, and for the children.
So why not just tax e-cigarettes and vape juice the same way cigarettes are taxed?
- that companies are intentionally marketing to kids other than ‘lol flavors=kids’? Like maybe actual evidence like documents or the like? I doubt any company would actually try to market to kids knowing it will get them shutdown.
- Silly rabbit – Trix flavors are for kids!
Frankly I think the law is stupid. There’s been a recent trend in alcoholic drinks to add sweeter flavors to appeal to tastes from young adults (not children, young adults) – honey whiskeys and flavored vodkas and the like which is an extrapolation of sweet tropical rum drinks that were popular before that. These are flavors and tastes adults WANT but I don’t see a movement to stop them.
It’s just that vaping is politically cool to hate at the moment.
Our great new Gubna is not encumbered with things like facts and figures when she makes her proclamations. She prefers to be on the cusp of “shooting from the hip” management…..*sigh*
- by DRJlaw ( 946416 )
that companies are intentionally marketing to kids other than ‘lol flavors=kids’? Like maybe actual evidence like documents or the like? I doubt any company would actually try to market to kids knowing it will get them shutdown.
Well as long as you doubt it [masslive.com], it must not be, right?
Do you really think the companies are coming up with a marketing slogan like: (in deep voice) “Strawberry flavored vapes. It’s the new, cool, ADULT thing”?
Sometimes you reveal your target audience by how you create and present the product. If you are putting in toys with a meal combo, you don’t have to have kids in the ads for it to be obvious that those particular meal combos are for kids.
Where are the parents? Why limit freedom for everyone because some people can’t raise their children? I don’t need government to be my parent. Freedom means the freedom to make bad, unhealthy decisions if the individual chooses to.
By the argument, we should censor all Anime since they are obviously cartoons and cartoons are aimed at children.
Adults like delicious flavors too. I vape caramel flavor juices.
Do you really think the companies are coming up with a marketing slogan like: (in deep voice) “Strawberry flavored vapes. It’s the new, cool, ADULT thing”?
Of course, there are still people whose attitude about anything is “our PARENTS do this??? Ewww!”
Which would make the “ADULT thing” anathema to (some) kids…
Re:Is there any evidence (Score:4, Interesting)
by nitehawk214 ( 222219 ) on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @03:01PM (#59158172)Adults that were not smoking in their teens are unlikely to pick it up. Of course they have to aim it at kids. What marketing of nicotine or alcohol is not at least partially aimed at kids? Pictures of cool adults doing cool adult things. You want to be a cool adult, right?
Yeah, there are adults stupid enough to be swayed by that kind of imagery. And I suppose there are plenty of adult smokers that only do so because they want to “fight the man”. Yeah, it’s downright stupid, but that doesn’t make it any less likely.
Now, I do think this particular law is a dumb way to try to avoid marketing to kids since it does little to address the actual problem.
- It’s been done before. Remember RJR’s Joe Camel character [wikipedia.org]
- ‘lol flavors=kids’ That is exactly the purpose of the ban. Nevermind the fact that flavored alcohol exists and flavored condoms exist, but nobody is saying those items are being marketed to children.
I predict a huge boom in sales at convenience stores just over the Indiana and Ohio borders.
I would think, rather, that online sales would go up….
Banning online sales is next. Not as easy to tax.
I would think, rather, that online sales would go up….
Seriously, it’s in the first sentence of the summary:
Michigan is poised to become the first US state to ban online and retail sales of flavored e-cigarettes
So are they going to somehow intercept all parcel mail coming into the state so it can be inspected for contraband? That is about the only way they can prevent online sales (cash, checks, and money orders are still viable snail mail payment methods, even for online purchases.)
Is Michigan also going to pull all of the candy flavored alcohol off the shelves? I mean, there’s whipped cream, green apple, cinnamon, pineapple, fruit punch, etc.
Wait, could it be that many adults also happen to like candy flavors…it’s almost like adults were kids once.
They banned Menthol cigarettes where I live. (Score:1, Interesting)
For pretty much the same reason. OMG THE KIDS! They didn’t even care when a group of people called them racist, since apparently a lot of black people like menthol. Not that I agree that it’s racist to ban menthol, just incredibly stupid since all you have to do is go a town over to get your precious menthol cigs.
To me it’s pretty stupid. If you want to have an impact on youth smoking, raise the smoking age to 21 state wide. That’d have a hell of a lot more impact than banning e-cigs, or menthol, or fl
I can tolerate walking near an ecig smoker if they are using one of the many nice flavors they seem to make for them, but regular cigarette smoke makes me nauseous to just be in the same vicinity.
Propylene glycol irritates my skin and second hand vape irritates my eyes and gives me a head ache.
Peanut allergies can be fatal. Must ban peanuts!!!
- While flavouring is a problem, naively banning it outright is not only an attack on freedoms but also meaningless when people buy it unflavoured and put in flavours. I wonder what will be next. Spoilation putting in bad flavours?
There is still a problem. In corner shops the flavourings are basically kiddie flavours. The same as ice cream, sweet and soft drink flavours. That should be stopped from being sold in convenience stores or at least kept behind the counter. There’s a discrepancy with the law havi
What’s next you ask? Heavy taxation is next. That’s always been the end-game for the anti-vape hysteria coming from gov’t. Their budgets have grown to depend on cigarrette/tobacco taxes. Soon you’ll be told that taxation is the compromise they can live with as a compromise.
Oh, and they’ll also outlaw online sales. Can’t tax those as easily.
That makes it pretty much certain that they are lying. Major financial contribution from the tobacco industry?
Yeah, I’m sure Philip Morris is desperate to see eCig vendors like *checks notes* Juul kicked out of the industry, so it can continue to focus on *checks notes* its naturally dying markets of cigarettes rather than transition to safer products that do not kill its customers.
I am impressed with the marketing of eCigs, they’ve managed to convince so many people they’re hip, cool, anti-establishment companies that are enemies of big tobacco, rather than the truth, which is that they’re a combination of Big
- “Big Tobacco” lol.. Did I just enter a time warp to 1986? There is no such thing as Big Tobacco any more, it’s a thing old people, people on anti-smoking commercials, and squares say.
It doesn’t seem like much of a ban if it is only for 6 months. Just buy up a 6 month supply and then you are good until the ban ends.
Ok, I’m not a smoker so not sure what that would cost so is probably cost prohibitive for most.
Or even buy up a 12 month supply before the temp ban goes into effect, set aside half for yourself, then turn a tidy profit on the local gray market with the rest.
I find all of these arguments dumb. I’m 37. I don’t vape or smoke, but if I did, you can be damned sure I’d be buying flavored stuff.
:fade in to a street corner and a shady guy standing there, looking shady:
“Do you have the good stuff?” and looks around nervously
“$50”Not to mention all the years kids have smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol anyway…..
Won’t stand up to scrutiny in court.
Remember when they tried banning menthols specifically, but it was deemed racist?
So they’re banning menthol cigarettes too then? Lol, only kidding. Of course they’re not. How about tobacco flavored vape juices, are those “flavored” and thus banned?
And flavored Alcohol!
And steak sauce.- Humorously, there is probably more evidence of the ills of steak (to which one would presumably apply steak sauce) than there is of the dangers of vaping so this is a pretty good post.
- … only criminals will have flavored vape juice.
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